Are chemtrails real and contrails a con?

randomlight 4 years ago

Nice summation; well done.

Fabrizio 4 years ago

Hi Bard,

good article. Yes, chemitrails are real but important is detect and differe them from the common contrails. Of course, the amount of metallic matter in them is a good way for understand they are not a simple condensation.

Darol (cd4sunshine) 4 years ago

Very nicely put Bard although the small part about reference to "persistant contrails vs. Chemtrails" really makes no difference as the USAF is gonna say no matter what ya wannna callem, they have always been there and ain't hurtin' no one,,,,,RIGHT

Darol

shipsuperstore 4 years ago

Many a conspiracy at the top they will never tell us, thanks for the insight and I did see the show you referenced on Discovery.

 Good job.

B

Madhavi Bhatia 4 years ago

Dear Bard, this is a rather horrifying subject. I've never actually heard of this before. The only chemical trails that i"ve heard of are the ones behind jet planes and ofcourse spills of pesticides and insecticides that ae sprayed by planes on the american and russian farms. Would you please write a more encyclopedic article on this on the copper wiki . My friends and i would be extremely grateful. The site is http://www.copperwiki.org Do check out some of the articles on sunscreen and eco fibres and please do send feedback when and if you get the time. thanks

Life_of_Purpose1 4 years ago

Bard,

Great post! I have been talking to people about chemtrails quite a bit. It is about awareness and getting others informed. Most people have not even a second thought to look up and see the obvious "writing in the sky". They are getting better and better in making them look like nice, natural whispy clouds to fool the sheeple. We notice how there will be criss crosses all over the sky one day and the next couple, none. I wonder if we will ever know the truth, what they are, why, and how do they detirme where they spray. There have been many postulations of the ominous reasons to spray of which include keeping us from evolving spiritually and acheiving enlightenment. I find it an interesting speculation as most things in this world, especially instituted by the government, do carry this side effect.

Looking forward to learning and sharing more...

Namaste,

Dre

The How To Hub 4 years ago

A little timeline - I am 31 years old and have grown up in Australia. As a teenager I used to see the trails and think they were cool, you know like the airforce jets with the coloured smoke displays.....my perspective as an adult is ....HORROR. What kind of world are we going to leave our future generations?

The Bull 4 years ago

Bard,

Wow...You have opened my eyes and mind at the same time...

I live in the Northeast on the coast of the US...minutes from the Bush compound- Walkers point.

The airspace is littered with intenational flights heading to Boston's Logan and various NY hubs.

We also maintain one of the largest US Airforce runways at Portsmouth, NH Pease Air base (only SAC refuling now).

The resulting asthma, allergies, flu-like illness, respiratory and sinus problems, nose bleed, fatigue and depression, tinnitus, sight problems and inflammation of the eyes,dizziness, skin rashes, high blood pressure and pneumonia STATISTICS would be very interesting to calculate for this region.

Do you have any ideas how I may find this information out tatistically?

TheBull

rmr 4 years ago

Very informative! I have been reading about contrails for years, but I have never heard them referred to as chemtrails before. I have noticed, though, that many of them do seem to have a lot more hang time lately. I live relatively close to a major airport, and have noticed that, on some days, there are upwards of 100 contrails in the sky, while on others there are only a few.

JazzRoc 4 years ago

You may believe that chemtrails are real, O Bard, but you are wrong.

You are wrong, and you cannot prove you are right. Your "proof" is that "thousands of people say so".

These people that "say so" share many, and perhaps all, of the attributes of people that believe the Earth is flat, the Sun goes round the Earth, that God made Man "in his own image" (6,000 years ago!), and we CANNOT possibly have evolved from an ape-like creature five million years ago, that we are "imbued with a soul", and if we "please God" we will "go to Heaven" after our body dies and rots.

These people are DELUDED by their own ignorance and fear. They, on the whole, suffered through their educational period (personally I found it unpleasant even while top of the a-stream in a grammar school) and never learned to respect the opinions of people more able than they were to grasp essential scientific principles. Otherwise they would, of course, believe the word of atmospheric scientists who have for decades been telling these people that persistent contrails are a natural by-product of large-scale mass air transit.

The first queries as to why the sky turned white were made in the late fifties and early sixties, so the topic is NOT exactly a new one. Even before that collisions occurred between close-flying Flying Fortress bombers on 1000-bomber daylight bombing raids on Germany between 1943 and 1945 when they too turned the skies white with the exhausts from their 18-cylinder radial engines in particularly cold and humid conditions.

If a million tons of kerosine are burned daily (yes!) in the stratosphere, which is thin and cold and easily humidified with relatively small amounts of water, then large areas of the sky are going to turn WHITE. This is the "white" of ice crystals - water!

The rest is fanciful paranoia, with a small amount of LIES, DECEIT and FRAUD. For that, blame Carnicom and some ignorant and some shameless YouTubers.

You should be ashamed of yourself. If you were better-educated, Bard, you would be. Your activity is harming society.

I have amassed quite a lot of support literature at

http://jazzroc.wordpress.com and invite your responses...

JazzRoc 4 years ago

Perhaps after all you REALLY ought to read my wordpress blog.

In it you will find confirmation of everything I have mentioned above, and directly-attributable quotes from specialist atmospheric scientists, graphs, details and photographs of almost all relevant material, specific proofs of chemtrailers' fraudulent claims and blow-by-blow debunks of EVERY chemtrail claim.

What more can one do, when confronted by a deluded and harmful person who is determined in his ignorance to do further harm?

Well, advise you NOT to visit the US, I suppose. THERE they have the Patriot Act (which is not my idea of nice legislation!)

What you are doing falls within the parameters of that act, and newly-trained and less sympathetic people there might well take it upon themselves to "educate" you, seeing as you are obviously determined never to do the job yourself.

Even in a British society noted for its tolerance of stupidity you might find that at some time in the near future (these are changing times!) your ignorant disregard of scientific principles, technocratic excellence and social decency will cause you to fall foul of the law.

Don't ever say I didn't warn you...

JazzRoc 4 years ago

"it is now probably being read by some freemasons" - what a horrible thought!

"Universal Freemason's message board of which I am a member" - what, another horrible thought!

"insulting and threatening in tone" - without a doubt you are a fool, for you are still ever-ready to accept baseless arguments and reject the remorseless logic of mine. I advised you not to visit the US, nor Britain after 2012. Personally I'll admit to finding it difficult to be pleasant to someone like you who is practically as dangerous as a bomb-wielding terrorist with your spreading of lies and fear. I regard you now exactly the way I regard arms dealers. You are living in a safe spot and a safe era where your wickedness is going unpunished, but that won't last for ever.

"you expect anyone to want to hear from you" - I certainly won't lie to gain plausibility like the people YOU believe.

"both sides have much to learn" - Science and the truth of Science is not a democracy. Only ONE side is utterly ignorant in this case, and it's YOURS. You have learnt nothing and are telling lies as a consequence.

"You happen to believe in science and have a lot of faith in it" - I put no FAITH in Science. That's like putting FAITH in Mathematics. Is one FAITHFUL to LOGIC, or merely LOGICAL?

"You don't believe in God and I do!" - Which God is this? The jealous one? The one who made the Universe in six days six thousand years ago?

"I am convinced that chemtrails are very real" - As real as your god, santa claus, and the tooth fairy.

"weather modification is one definite use they are being put to" - Sure thing. The three million four hundred thousand tons of barium required to provide a mono-molecular coating over the whole Earth would only take eighty-five thousand tanker sorties using one and a half million tons of fuel. And, of course, next week, you'd have to repeat it, etc.

"You call people "uneducated" but what does that mean?" - It means believing "weather modification is one definite use they are being put to".

"Educated" is what I have just demonstrated to you: the ready use of mathematics and a true knowledge of the properties of the Earth to show you just what foolishness you speak.

"I happen to have a BA degree, a diploma in media, 5 A-levels and 6 O-levels and that counts as educated by most people's standards" - Hmm. And I've seen those standards fall year after year.

By my standards you are DIM. If I were as dim as you are I'd keep my stupid mouth shut. It seems you are too dim to understand how dim you are. That IS a shame...

"believe what they are told, not to think for themselves" - How ironic! Shine a light on that...ah, but your batteries are low, and your light bulb glows a faint orange... lacking scientific understanding, you cannot see how misled you have been, and how misleading and dangerous you now are.

Eric Graudins 4 years ago

I've never heard of chemtrails. Thanks for writing this hub.

JazzRoc - If your case is correct, you've considerably weakened it by the way you have chosen to argue your point here.

JazzRoc 4 years ago

Eric, my case is correct. If I were arguing with someone who simply misunderstood contrails I might be more polite, but there is more to it than that. You would do well to leaf through http://jazzroc.wordpress.com

Bard: "we are no longer friends" - that's as it should be. You won't find arms dealers in my list of friends either.

"you keep on insulting me" - I keep on describing you as an ignorant person who is way above your head, and causing harm within our society by insisting that people you do not know are deliberately poisoning the whole of our society, using baseless assertions and faulty reasoning. You've GOT to be stupid, because I cannot see you as THAT intelligent and malevolent.

"so bigoted in your views" - I see you've decided I'm not "programmed" (that's the usual one) so I must be simply bigoted.

It seems to me that you consider the understanding of science to be a form of bigotry. Well, we live in a scientific and technological world, and here we are using that very technology to conduct this argument. You are arguing with a man who has tested jet engines in their test beds, helped in the construction of the supersonic wind tunnel used to test the Concord's engines, helped in the construction of the nuclear decanning plant in Windscale, helped in the construction of the world's first ethernet network, and the world's first modern electric city car. (And many other things, but that's by-the-by).

I know exactly how gas turbines work and exactly how their exhausts work in the stratosphere, and exactly how the stratosphere functions from my personal work experience. This isn't a "view". I can BUILD these things.

You turn up with your "fear of science", read a whole bunch of foolish and baseless and totally inaccurate assumptions in a scientific field you don't understand at all, and accuse INNOCENTS of attempted GENOCIDE. Who is the BIGOT here?

"You do not allow others freedom of thought and opinion" - This IS "freedom of thought and opinion". How can your statement be correct?

"are another form of the thought police" - Really!

"I have tried to present a balance of views" - We aren't talking about a "balance of views". Science is not a "balance of views". You're either CORRECT or WRONG.

"it clearly isn't working" - It's working fine from my perspective. You are doing EVIL and I'm trying to prevent you, albeit unsuccessfully so far. I'm trying to sting you into some feeling of remorse for what you are doing, and hoping that you might, after all, educate yourself out of your delusion.

I'm also showing others that this ludicrous topic is opposed by scientists and other educated people. It is we who are doing things in this society, we who provide the wealth and power for travel and information systems (like this one) to the benefit of everyone. We have been able to do this by years of poorly-paid study, experiment and practice. We are professionals and deserve respect for our abilities and achievements - not this ignorant and shocking diatribe to which we are subjected.

In 1981, as our small team of electronics engineers clustered around an oscilloscope in a Wood Green laboratory which was demonstrating for the first time in the world that it was possible to send information down a wire at a rate of a hundred megabits per second (and we knew we were witnessing the start of a world revolution in information), nothing would have led me to believe that twenty-seven years later I would find myself using this fabulous system to conduct arguments about contrails with dumbed-down and deluded pseudo-scientists.

How IRONIC!

Eric Graudins 4 years ago

How timely.

Tim Flannery, one of Australia's top scientists has proposed that Global Warning could be slowed by injecting sulphur into the top levels of the atmosphere.

He says that it could be put there by mixing it with jet fuel.

This would be called "Global Dimming".

http://www.theage.com.au/news/environment/global-d

Debbie Peace love 4 years ago

Hi Bard Are you sure that Jazzroc isn't a fox news presenter because he sure does sound like one to me. When they lose their arguments they resort to petty playgrond name calling and insults. Because they have lost the debate and cannot bring an intelligent debate to the table.

As you are aware I take a keen interest in chemtrails. Anyone who tells me they do not exist had better open their eyes and look up to the sky! You would have to be blind not to see them. Over here in the UK they make pretty pictures of chemtrails. We get the noughts and crosses obviously pilots having a game of tic tac toe. Well they have to dump whatever their dumping so they may of well have some fun. We get circles, loads of pretty pictures over here. Does not look to me as if they are planes with people on board and places to go! Why are the planes that are chemtrailing PLAIN White with NO markings! Planes usually advertise who they are up in the skies.

Why has there been a huge increase in breathing problems? Considering less people smoke. Also this new phenomenia Morgellons? Doctors are asking this question too. Also this may have something to do with the honeybee's demise too.

Why does the mainstream media keep silent about chemtrials. If they were ordinary contrails I am sure we would have had something on the media by now trying to debunk the "Chemtrail Theorists" However, their silence is deafening.

Also as many people have noticed our weather is fine until the planes come and low and behold we have rain!

Oh I suppose its all coincidence. I am sorry but there are too many "Coincidences" concerning chemtrails.

Why is jazroc so angry? If he disagree's with you on chemtrails then that is his perogotive. However, to call you all the names he has called you shows he has something to fear.

I wish jazroc could give us some facts andfigures to why you are wrong because he proves nothing. Yes I understand he worked on engines big bloody deal! does not prove a thing!

IF you don't want to believe what is right in front of your eyes. Then that is up to you. However, the best way to hide something is to put it in full view.

When someone throws nasty insults and name calling. Especially to someone who is very well read on his subject. The insult thrower is shown to be what he is. A fool.

JazzRoc 4 years ago

Debbie Peace Love:

"Are you sure that Jazzroc isn't a fox news presenter" - I'm a retired engineer living fifteen miles away from the Bard in Tenerife. Are you sure you aren't being abusive here?

"open their eyes and look up to the sky" - and you'll see contrails. If you look at the sky you'll see the Sun go round the Earth. Now, DOES the Sun go round the Earth?

"Does not look to me as if they are planes with people on board and places to go!" - You can tell all that from seven miles beneath? You should get a job in Air Traffic Control. They need you!

"Why are the planes that are chemtrailing PLAIN White with NO markings" - Your first unwittingly ignorant question. It's a physical phenomenon called "blue light scattering". Educate yourself. Try WIKI.

"Why has there been a huge increase in breathing problems considering less people smoke?" - Because there has been a huge increase in arable farming, with new crops with new pollens, industry is still increasing using exotic materials with dangerous dusts when cutting and grinding without adequate air filtration, because urban photochemical smogs are still increasing, and finally because power stations are burning less safe materials as the world's oil supplies dwindle. The Western diet of over-processed foods with too much meat and too little fruit, coupled with high-stress levels and poor exercise regimens and contaminated water supplies doesn't help at all. Overall, this is an already complex intermix of factors by itself, requiring a massive statistical effort to sort out - before you come along with IMAGINARY ills.

"Also this new phenomenia Morgellons? Doctors are asking this question too?" - Look it up in WIKI. In Science as a whole, FACTS are established using DUPLICATION of results and PEER REVIEW of research. This HASN'T HAPPENED WITH MORGELLONS' CLAIMS. Ergo - it's NOT Science and NOT TRUE.

"Also this may have something to do with the honeybee's demise too." - May it? See above. You must remember that scientists get famous for discovering things, so the pressures are there to make these discoveries. See above.

"Why does the mainstream media keep silent about chemtrials?" - They have tried it on, burnt their fingers, and won't do it again!

"Also as many people have noticed our weather is fine until the planes come and low and behold we have rain!" - Or perhaps, the humid air that creates the contrails eventually causes rain?

"Oh I suppose its all coincidence. I am sorry but there are too many "Coincidences" concerning chemtrails." - There are too many "coincidences" in the minds of those that are deluded!

"Why is jazzroc so angry?" - I should cheer when ignorant "Chicken Littles" accuse innocent people of attempted mass murder, should I?

"to call you all the names he has called you shows he has something to fear." - Of course I have something to fear! STUPIDITY is a DANGEROUS thing in a technological world!

"I wish jazzroc could give us some facts and figures to why you are wrong because he proves nothing." - I doubt whether you could appreciate proof if you met it. You need a modicum of scientific understanding which you've already demonstrated you don't have. However, there's always WIKI and http://jazzroc.wordpress.com

"Yes I understand he worked on engines big bloody deal! does not prove a thing!" - A bit more than that, dear. I'm a scientist. And an artist. And a musician.

"IF you don't want to believe what is right in front of your eyes. Then that is up to you. However, the best way to hide something is to put it in full view." - The sun - does it ACTUALLY go round the earth?

"When someone throws nasty insults and name calling." - They need to be STOPPED! Your hypocrisy is showing! Or hadn't you noticed that CHEMTRAILS insults hard-working, decent professional people (and anyone else who has a modicum of commonsense)?

"Especially to someone who is very well read on his subject. The insult thrower is shown to be what he is. A fool." - All that glitters is not gold. You may read, but you patently do not understand. A fool is what YOU are.

Bard:

"it doesn't satisfy me or put my worries to rest on the subject" - You demand to be spoon-fed scientific understanding, but it doesn't come that way. You must study for years for such understanding to arrive. If you DO NOT HAVE this understanding, you will NEVER be satisfied.

In the interim, perhaps you could moderate your pseudo-scientific assertions....

"he could be hearing in detail from people living with illnesses they attribute to chemtrails - it seems that he doesn't want to listen to what others say" - I thought it was I that was the insulting person. I have read what people have said, and it is obvious that there is no direct link. We ALL breathe in a mass of dusts, pollens, viruses and bacteria with every breath we take. Our bodies have a tolerance for doing this which has been EARNED by the deaths of countless millions of our predecessors over four billion years.

"I have called a bigoted approach" - The correct approach to YOUR "chemtrail" bigotry.

"he becomes very rude, threatening and insulting" - How is it that you continually forget the nature of your claim? Why can't you see that you ARE what you claim ME to be?

"why doesn't the media get someone who can explain it to do so?" - Because it is too difficult and boring a job for them (they would LOSE ratings)!

"the media could call upon scientific 'experts' to explain the matter" - I am such an expert. How successful am I?

"contrails are and defined as harmless" - And of course they are. It is YOUR BEHAVIOUR that is harmful.

JazzRoc 4 years ago

Really, Bard, I wonder what happens when you address yourself to read something!

I could answer your question from my internal understanding, but just in case there was a built-in trick I addressed myself to the text in question, and found it answered your question completely!

"if what you say are harmless contrails and harmless cloud cover resulting from them cut(ting) out the sunlight getting through do you not think it is likely to affect bee navigational ability when it has been established by SETI that sunlight is the main navigation tool for the insects?"

NO. Like all navigating animals on Earth, bees are NOT reliant on the visible Sun for navigation. Any such creatures that were SOLELY reliant upon the Sun would have been rendered extinct by the first large volcanic outburst or cometary impact than obscured the Sun for a sufficiently large period. And there been quite a few of these over the preceding 500,000,000 years.

Bees sense the Sun, polarized light, landscape features, magnetic fields, and use two techniques of distance measurement (the latter one "optical flow" is new to me, but entirely unsurprising). What follows is a direct quote from the article: "All of these senses are redundant. That is to say, remove any one of them and the bee will probably still be able to navigate without problems. When the sun is obscured by clouds or trees, but patches of blue sky are still visible, the honey bee is able to use polarized light as a backup navigation system. The light coming directly from the sun is unpolarised. Some of this sunlight, however, is scattered by air molecules and a pattern of polarized light is set up in the sky. This pattern consists of a roughly circular set of gradients centered around the sun. The polarization is at its most intense at a 90' angle from the sun. By detecting the polarization angle bees are able to infer the location of the sun. Exactly how they manage to do this is still unknown."

Did you actually READ this? It ANSWERS the question you put to me! Do you know what "redundant" means in this context?

"So whether it's water vapour converted to ice or toxic particles the result is surely the same - less light gets through." - Here you once again demonstrate your scientific ignorance.

"Toxic particles" cannot flow through the gas-turbine injectors. Injectors are hardened steel precision-ground tubes with very small internal diameters. Flow-control valves also clog if fine solids pass through them. In fact, they must both be protected by a high-capacity low-micron filter, which, of course, would stop solids. DUSTS PUT OUT ENGINES.

Passenger aircraft are built down to a price by civilian businesses. Their wings contain spars, tanks and control equipment. They are built to very tight tolerances and riveted or glued down firmly. They do not have "empty spaces" and "extra pumps and nozzles" built into them for CHEMICAL ATTACK.

"Less light gets through" - It has been demonstrated by two different scientists using two different techniques in two different parts of the Earth that incident sunlight falling on the earth has been reduced by at least 15% over the last forty years. It is attributed to the industrial revolution, not just in the west, but in the middle and far east - it's the consequence of COMBUSTION IN GENERAL. It is known that the contribution of air travel is between 1 and 2% of this.

"This can be clearly seen when sun halos form as they do now we have these trails so often in the sky!" - The Sun has formed halos in the Earth's stratosphere for four-and-a half billion years. The ice crystals that form such a halo are PURE. Any more than the single nucleating molecule at its centre (which every water droplet or ice crystal needs to form at all) and crystal formation is interfered with, and the halo effect disappears also.

You should know this, Steve, as we FREQUENTLY see halo effects round both Sun and Moon here, but NEVER when the KALIMA dust is in the sky.

Hadn't you noticed?

JazzRoc 4 years ago

"I know what redundant means but was thinking that if sunlight is the main tool" - and there's your paradox - "redundant" means "if removed, function persists".

"blanket coverage with artificial cloud" - All these clouds are cirrus. In supersaturated air the ice crystals of cirrus clouds, whether natural or man-made contrails, will gain weight and fall until they become diffuse clouds of water droplets (stratus) or if they reach the ground - fog. This fog, whatever its origination, is practically pure water. The impurities (and we're talking fractions of a percent here) will be soot (from a gas turbine) or aluminium silicate (from the land) or methyl sulfide (from the sea).

NONE of these will poison bees. The most likely killer of bees is a virus. The second most likely killer is a bacterium. The third most likely is a fungus. The fourth most likely is another strain of bees. Use your commonsense. Cities and industrial landscapes occupy about 2% of the Earth's surface area - there may be cumulative effects for which they share a worldwide responsibility, like increasing proportions of carbon and sulfur dioxides in the air, but aircraft have only a 2% share in this. It is more likely that Nature itself is killing the bees.

It is very unfortunate (but obviously true) that these bee enemies are also arranged in the order of being the most difficult to discover. You have to remember (if you ever knew) that due to the incredible scales involved, finding a specific lethal bacterium on a bee might be like finding a single unknown person in a city, and that finding a single lethal virus on a bee (it might be INSIDE a bacterium!) might be like finding a single unique person on Earth - namely VERY much harder than finding a needle in a haystack - in fact well-nigh impossible.

"I joined the dots" - but only the dots you could see...

"how did Teller's sunscreen proposal work or this new madness by Prof Flannery of wanting to use sulphur" - Teller's proposal was never answered. Flannery's was to use rockets, but this engineer can tell you now that the whole proposal was flaky, and very much more likely to do harm than good. After all, what is acid rain? (Er - sulfur dioxide meets water - makes sulfuric acid!) How good is THAT for trees?

"To my knowledge both aluminium (Teller) and sulphur (Flannery) are solids" - It isn't impossible to turn both into organic liquids. Sulfur is fairly easy, aluminium difficult and expensive. (Barium is much more difficult and is so dense and reactive that specially-lined tanks and mechanical stirrers would be required!)

However on the scale of the Earth you can forget it. I've told you already that a single shot of barium for the Earth would require 3.4 million tons. That's for a single pass... Can you envisage the US (and who else could it be?) shelling up for 85,000 KC105 tanker flights on a weekly basis, when its economy is about to go down the tubes? The whole idea is ridiculous. The surface area of the Earth is fifty times larger than the United States.

"what about military planes?" - It's your best argument, but doesn't pan out when you consider the logistics. See above.

You say you have read my blog. I can tell you're not telling me the truth, for this is thoroughly answered there, and here I'm forced to repeat myself.

As I have said before, Steve, you cannot defeat me using scientific argument, because I know the science involved. If you really get down to basics (and of course you can't!) I would fight you all the way and still end up the winner.

Your side knows this and has found other ways to defeat me - by blocking, by corruption, by fraud, by lying. But never by science. Blocking and corruption are beyond my powers to overcome, but occasionally I have defeated fraud. And lies are easy to deal with.

What I would like for you to do (apart from stopping making all these false assertions!) is come up with questions which really challenge me, and not questions which any book on atmospheric physics or topical science programme can answer.

And here is one for you. In my blog there is a link to a fascinating British invention which provides a safe, easy, cheap and reversible method of controlling and reducing Global Warming.

What is it?

JazzRoc 4 years ago

Crumbs, Steve.

Answers like this REALLY pull the rug out from under my feet! I am so accustomed to dogged argument that I don't really know now what to say. :-)

Except, of course, that there is much more to this than what we have covered so far, and even if "chemtrails" don't exist, then for sure most ills suffered by both Man and Nature are STILL down to Man!

My point all the way through my "campaign" against "chemtrails" is that WHILE "chemtrails" are the focus of attention, the REAL problems are NOT ADDRESSED.

Namely, people ARE suffering from lung and skin allergic reactions, and possibly dying. These people will be the young, the old, the poor, and people who have already been weakened by some other disease. Not having "media share", they can slip away without causing a stir or attracting attention. Awful. And I'm fairly sure that's happening, not from any particular facts I possess (except perhaps my own intense allergy to Britain's summer months!), but from a half-century of experience in the ways of the world.

I have watched the quality of Britain's air, water, and food drop decade by decade. And the quality of life! The fuddy-duddy "Empah" values, stiff-upper-lip, reserve, and artificial politeness PRESERVED a life quality we have LOST. Lack of stress! Peace!

I'm also concerned about CARS.

In the sixties the Conservative transport minister Dr. Beeching removed half our rail network. This rail network was a web of railway that reached to every town and virtually every village in the country. It was a fabulous real estate asset because it was JOINED UP, and could hence be converted - perhaps into a clean and efficient tramway, or a road, or a canal, or an information highway. Or maybe left as part of a modern automatic railway. Well, once broken up and flogged off as packets of land no longer joined up, that which cost the Victorians SO much trouble was cast to the wind...

In the seventies there was the Oil Crisis, when the price of oil tripled overnight. "Now" I thought "there is bound to be a drive towards light and efficient people movers!" What did we build? 4 by 4's, juggernauts as big and heavy as the monsters built in the US during the fifties!

The SUPERMARKET "juggernauts" drove across our valleys in the eighties, removing trees and hedges and small-holdings in their factory-farming "techno-park" drive to produce consistently-sized, brightly-coloured, poisoned, tasteless "vegetable" (or "animal") pap, leaving in their wake air filled with herbicides, pesticides, and pollens, and sordid concentration camps of bird and animal suffering.

And then the cars. Without a decent railway or bus system or information system we were forced into cars. (Not you, Steve, I know.) Thousands of cars. MILLIONS of cars. On occasion the M25 was a stationary six-lane CAR PARK (with all engines running) for a HUNDRED MILES. What in God's Name sort of LUNACY is THAT?

Cars, poisoned air, poisoned water, denatured food, the mass-torture of birds and animals. Rudeness in public. Temporary and demeaning employment. Fraud in Banking and Insurance. Mortgage and Equity crises. Lying politicians. Foreign war. STRESS... BRITAIN!

Chemtrails are simply (apart from their nonexistence) SURPLUS TO REQUIREMENT.

The anti-GW invention is the salt-spray trimaran of Dr. Stephen Salter. Apart from turning the skies of the southern Atlantic, Pacific, and Indian oceans somewhat leaden (and reducing the violence of storms in the area, and providing refuge for shipwrecked sailors) these devices do no harm whatsoever. Only fifty of them are needed, and they can be switched off overnight if that were necessary.

JazzRoc 4 years ago

"This means a lot that I have been believing was wrong!" - Steve, that was a gracious (and almost unique!) apology which temporarily took my breath away. It is unusual for a "chemtrail" adherent to back down over anything. The only previous instance I can recall was - you - about a year ago.

Yet, after that, you soon got into full swing again.

So may we look at your phrase "a lot that I have been believing" and pick it apart a little? Can you now be believing that yes, there ARE poisons being dispensed, but they DON'T make white lines in the sky? Perhaps you now believe that no, they CAN'T be passenger planes, but they CAN be military KC105 tankers which are NOT laying visible trails? Invisible trails of WHAT might these be? Do you know how many KC105s there are - compared with the number required to carry out Edward Teller's proposal? (ET - the original "Strangelove"!) NOT ENOUGH. Not enough tankers, not enough fuel, not enough barium.

Did you notice the satellite image of the whole of the North Atlantic Ocean in my blog that showed contrails as a grid of white lines concentrated ONLY over the middle of the ocean (where there was a huge north-south cold front!) with virtually no contrails over the land anywhere? If they were "spraying", WHY would that occur?

Did you see the "chemtrailer" version of a (on-off) "gap" in a contrail that was patently photoshopped into existence?

Did you see the Sciechimiche video claiming to be the inside of a "spraying" aircraft which was "fabricated" from a photo of the interior of the Boeing 777 Long Range Prototype, which at the time contained interconnected barrels of water (in place of the seating) for directly testing the consequences of varying its centre of gravity?

I hope you COMPLETELY understand that there is NOT A SINGLE WORD OF TRUTH in ANY PART of the "chemtrail conspiracy", and that some of the "claimants" are NOT DELUDED but actively FRAUDULENT.

And "Geo-engineering" is not necessarily a dirty word...http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fg7J8P-uXqMYes

Steve, I looked at your stop press, and it warmed my heart to see it. But it is an afterword in your Hub entitled "Are Chemtrails Real, and Contrails a Con?", so I suppose the end results of this episode may still be deleterious, and a distraction from solving our true difficulties.

I hope you will soon return to your laudable activities in the fields and woods of permaculture, wildlife, wild foods, conservation and Nature.

JazzRoc 4 years ago

I see that "Yes" arrived appended to the link I offered regarding the topic of Geo-Engineering. The correct link is:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fg7J8P-uXqM

Sorry about that!

JazzRoc 4 years ago

I notice that you'll find on the YouTube co-display page an article by Alex Jones concerning the Sun's role in Global Warming, where he suggests this coming Solar Cycle will show the Sun's brightness increasing by 50%.

In the 4.6 billion years (and 200 million solar cycles) since the Sun and its solar system formed, the Sun has increased its brightness by (I think) 27%.

This means that the mean brightness increase of the Sun per cycle is 0.000000135%.

The Sun is not yet middle-aged in terms of its own life, and is expected to burn for another 10 billion years before it dies. It is proceeding smoothly, and showing just its usual behaviour - a tiny increase every cycle.

It strains credibility to believe that THIS Solar cycle brightness increase is going to be 370 BILLION times greater...

So how can Alex Jones say this? Perhaps he isn't a scientist, but I've just sat down with a calculator and rattled out the figures - and you can do it too.

What sort of lunacy is this? Why does it happen these days? Where is the ACTION here? What's the REAL agenda?

unknown 3 years ago

first off i would like to say i am new to this subject and at present not swayed either way,but i have read both side's to this argument and the continuing argument between bard and jazzroc, jazzroc by your standards i am extremly uneducated,but reading the post's here by both you and bard i am dissapointed in the way in which such an educated person argue's there point,firstly it seems you pick on a sentance and then dis-credit it as much as possible by insulting everything it implys, its like reading a list of insults rather than a fair and equal argument,and no doubt you will do the same to this comment picking up on bad spelling, grammer and such saying how uneducated i am,but i am and i can admit this,allso you claim to be a scientist yet your views are firmly set with no room for change,does science not show us now that the impossible is possible?does history not show us that science get's it wrong time and time again? you are everything that is wrong with science today! science is an ever changing and growing subject and needs open-minded people for its progression,and yes this has been a bit of a snipe at you maybe un-fairly,but try looking at things from a different point of view for a change,for if there is one thing life has taught me is that there is allways 2 sides to everything! and if we point blank refuse to look at one side we become lost in own delusions.

JazzRoc 3 years ago

"does science not show us now that the impossible is possible?"

NO. The impossible has been shown forever to be, and to have been, impossible. The Universe is consistent to the laws we have uncovered to as far as we can see, which is to a distance of thirteen and a half billion light years. There are NO other rules operating other than the ones we have uncovered - other than the rules we HAVEN'T uncovered!

"does history not show us that science gets it wrong time and time again?"

YES. And THEN it gets it RIGHT. Consider how you and your mother avoided death when you were born, and all the other aspects of your material existence which "wrong" science has got "right", and contrived to make your life OTHER than "nasty, brutish, and short"! Consider the means by which you argue here. Consider that once I worked in a team to develop this means.

"you are everything that is wrong with science today!"

Well, thanks. Had I known this, perhaps I would have have NOT designed the world's first ethernet transceiver. Perhaps PEOPLE are what's wrong with science. Perhaps you are a victim (already) of a dumbing-down process I saw begun in the early seventies. Perhaps you are also a victim of fiscal policy (namely the total surrender of "democratic" western governments to private banking interests). But you are NO victim of mine!

I have been in opposition to every wicked and deleterious policy change I've seen occur since I've ever been able to vote. That's almost EVERY CHANGE THAT HAS BEEN MADE. I opposed entry into the Common Market (Britain should be strong and self-sufficient and independent), I opposed the Conservative Selsdon Committee (that dumbed YOU down!), I opposed the destruction of the Engineering, Shipbuilding, Mining and Machine Tool Industries, I opposed the Falklands War, I opposed the destruction of the Coal Mines, I opposed the idea that Britain could be a Fiscal Service for the World (ridiculous!), I opposed the rapid exploitation of North Sea Gas (further destroying the mining industry), I opposed the feeding of meat to cows, I opposed the idea that GM pollinating plants merely needed a 20-yard separation (!), and I opposed entry into the Iraqi war. Then I LEFT THE COUNTRY.

I had become VERY FED UP of being ROBBED (in ALL uses of that term) CONTINUALLY over a forty-year period. Even now I am close to destitute, as employment is hard to find for a sixty-four-year-old Welshman without money or transport in a Spanish fishing resort village. But it is warm here, and I am close to my grandson, and my needs are few. I shall soon create a solar home and permaculture food garden and achieve true self-sufficiency.

"science is an ever changing and growing subject and needs open-minded people for its progression"

Can't disagree with you here! Of course, it is necessary to point out that to be "open-minded" requires that one is EDUCATED in the first place. Otherwise one merely "opens" an EMPTY mind...

"and yes this has been a bit of a snipe at you maybe un-fairly"

Completely.

"but try looking at things from a different point of view for a change"

Well, I'm a qualified engineer and industrial designer and practise those disciplines. Now I compose music. The idea of a "different point of view" is QUITE POPULAR with engineers, designers, musicians! It helps CREATE NEW THINGS.

"for if there is one thing life has taught me is that there is always 2 sides to everything!"

Science isn't a democratic debate. There is ONLY a CORRECT side and an INCORRECT side. Life hasn't taught you ANYTHING, it seems...

"and if we point blank refuse to look at one side we become lost in own delusions"

No, you HOLD ONE.

I'd like to point out that if I'm arguing with an American it really makes no difference - the same evil and wicked policies are maintained by both Britain and the States. If the cap fits...

unknown 3 years ago

ok,well you have indeed made some valid points against what i have said to you,and claiming that you are everything wrong with science today was unfair and i apologize for that comment,but to say i have been dumbed down is allso a bit much,and when i talk of the impossible being possible one reference comes to mind and that is of quantum physics, but i will say thankyou for your reply and your comments and will discuss this more in dew course

unknown 3 years ago

oh and just to clear that last part up,i am definatly not an american,i would like to say that my original comment was posted mainly for the way in which you come across,it is a littel offensive in all honesty,and it bugged me,in reality i was not having ago at your abilities as a human being but more for the way that you put your point across,and somewhere in there i shall admit that i got a litte lost and sidetracked from the point i was getting at.

JazzRoc 3 years ago

I accept your apology.

Quantum physics does at first seem as though the impossible may be possible, but there is a fantastic SCALE effect at work here.

The scale of quantum physics is so small and local (and quick!) that the distances involved in organic molecules eg., from ONE peptide bond to the NEXT in a DNA molecule, become equivalent to the distances between stars.

All the "magic" is taking place in a "storm" (which is not even of microscopic size!) which on the whole averages out as - "non-magic" - nothing.

I am a Star Trek fan, and believe that "beam me up Scotty" (etc.) has tended to convince non-scientists that these types of events may some day be within the reach of scientists.

These programmes are FANTASIES. Their "science" (in almost all cases!) is poor. One isn't looking at a possible future -at all.

It is quite wrong to mix up a blend of fear of the US govt with fanciful ideas with radio stations (HAARP), barium stearate powders ("chemtrails"), "nanotechnology", "mindcontrol", aliens, and what-have-you, instead of finding the real solutions to lung and skin diseases.

The solutions will be found using Science, not Fantasy.

In the meanwhile "chemtrails" are a harmful distraction, an additional problem.

steve 3 years ago

hey i'm from new zealand and they spray us here too. i know that they are definately spraying something because you can't turn a contrail on and off. we also see up to 4 planes spraying at once, they do a run across the city then turn around and spray again.

i notice on days when they spray that all my flatmates seem to be more agitated and depressed.

it seems to affect the wind. because our city usually is really windy and gets SE and N prevailing winds. but over the last 3 years the winds are coming from weird directions and it is hardly ever windy anymore

i have also seen the rainbows in the fake clouds too

i heard that there is a secret haarp installation here too

lynette 3 years ago

I am emailing you to inform you of a strike that is being organized on July 4th 2008 against the New World Order and the spraying of chemicals in our skies. I am hoping to reach as far as I can with the message that there are good people out there who really want to change things. We all need to support each other and create a the kind of world it should be. Please spread the word of change and promote this website after all this affects us all. Please visit www.freewebs.com/changetheworldforever for more info. We need to change what is happening to our world and to our skies, for the sake of ourselves and for generations to come.

MD FREE 3 years ago

H2O is a greenhouse gas and that cannot combat global warming.

I didn't read jazzroc's comments and can't help wonder if he flies the planes.

Pollution does block sunlight from traveling deep into earth but I think there are better ways than pollution to stop global warming WTF!

MD FREE 3 years ago

The point I was making is frost and mist are h2o, not chem trails.

I am not saying that I believe in one side or the other on this, if you read the blog on myspace I was talking about, it was more detailed.

I do think the theory falls in line with other theories that becoming more factual.

At least, it is more believable than reptilian theories!

MD FREE 3 years ago

I am going to have to read your conversation with jazzroc when I have more time. I have some chemistry knowledge and would be happy to look at this as logicaly as possible.<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/UdtLTyNOB0A&hl=en& /><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true" /><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/UdtLTyNOB0A&hl=en& type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

MD FREE 3 years ago

No big deal about the deleted posts, I didn't feel comfortable puting the article up there. i would've sent a link but the profile I found it on is set to private so I do not think I could send a link. It was a lot longer of a article but I am not intent on changing your mind.

The fascinating part I thought, was the evolving DNA.

I started classes this week so I am becoming too busy for this subject. If I come across any proof you haven't heard of I will send you a myspace message with a link.

Lots of things can cause asthma and sinus problems, nearby trains using deisel, car pollution, airports, pollen. See you on another topic friend!

toxicpolarbear 3 years ago

hey. i hear planes at the same time every morning. I live in gwealod y garth in cardiff.

we have had some really heavy downpours but i gues the rain is everywhere anyway.

I have uncontrollable burny sneezing fits random spates & ive never had hayfever. Could be dust but i think i would be sneezing all of the time if was. my sleep patterns change and i feel different when i drink tap water.

Sean  3 years ago

If these don't exist howcome there is this chemtrail tracking site I go to that tells you when they will be here and when they won't be here and it's dead on 90% of the time? How would this guy know if they did not exist? I mean I think they do exist and they are up to something up there, what it is I have no clue but I have heard both sides of the argument and use common sense when I look up and I know these are different from the contrails I see on some days. Some days I see contrais and then these all over the sky. Jazzroc and his arguments are not going to sway me from these things or make it like they don't exist, like the devil they exist and they don't want you to know it. I am staying believing and studying these and reading about them. Some say they know some who fly and say they do spray these things and think it is for our good, some say it's just schaff and the military does spray it to jam radar, check those out in youtube. It has been on the news in Cali as well and weather channels if you look for it, so people do know and are up on these things, not enough people but some know. BTW as for the tracking site, I would put it up but some idiot will try to get it taken down if they are with the GOVT. or looking to keep these a wrap, I think I will pass but thats NO LIE. He tells when they will be spraying, and bottom line it happens.

bozena 3 years ago

JazzRoc is a well known DISINFORMIST. He magically appears at any discussion of atmospheric manipulation discussion and thwarts it with local fallacy pseudo-science, mostly released as countermeasures to chemtrail discussion. BEWARE!!

bozena 3 years ago

Bard of Ely, i still can't believe how easily you've been pushed over.

nojustno 3 years ago

bard you are so easily swayed 911 was genocide the powers that be only look at us as slaves and thats why we live longer jazzric has such an inflated ego he must be a fox reporter and he worked on so many projects like concord ha what with all his education thats all he has done for mankind basically helped pollute the world.

futonfraggle 3 years ago

Great hub, Bard. I fall into the first category, too. I guess that makes me a loon ;)

futonfraggle 3 years ago

Not yet. I'm going to swing over there now. You've written about a lot of interesting topics. I'm about to dive in!

sasina06 2 years ago

Mind control techniques use associations to intelligence and the clever "scientist" to convince people something is right. Disbelivers of conspiracy theories want to align themselves to this plot to keep their self worth high. People who resist this form of mind control are deemed stupid or mental or belonging to a terrorist organization. This response is part of the mind control agenda. Research and development is in itself driven by propaganda and corruption and you have to be free from over education to see through the persistent half truths we are given.It is the moderately educated and those free from mind controlled beliefs systems such as nothing exists unless there is evidence for it who can join the dots better. Listen to them as they have free thinking ability and intuition. Real scientists often just churn out contrived rubbish like politicians to pacify the masses.

creativeMind 2 years ago

i havent heard about this before.

JazzRoc 2 years ago

nojustno:

"bard you are so easily swayed" - Not in my experience. We had an argument which lasted several months, won by myself on the point of ice haloes never occurring in a "dusty" atmosphere..

"911 was genocide" - No, it was terrorism.

"the powers that be only look at us as slaves and thats why we live longer" - The first part of that has been true since pre-history. The reason why we live longer is that we have benefited from four hundred years of SCIENCE.

"jazzric has such an inflated ego he must be a fox reporter" - I reckon that anyone who makes pronouncements without correct (or any) information has an inflated ego.

"and he worked on so many projects like concord ha what with all his education thats all he has done for mankind basically helped pollute the world." - Not at all. Today's jets are clean and efficient. I have worked also on the ethernet technology that powers the web. My last work before my retirement was on the Ford "Think" electric car.

Try not to be so consistently WRONG.

sasina06:

"Mind control techniques use associations to intelligence and the clever "scientist" to convince people something is right." - They may do. But knowledge of the science of the atmosphere is available to YOU. You merely have to use a LIBRARY. You can check every one of my statements THERE.

"Disbelievers of conspiracy theories want to align themselves to this plot to keep their self-worth high." - A statement entirely true of believers. "People who resist this form of mind control are deemed stupid or mental or belonging to a terrorist organization." - I'm not sure about the latter, but the former part is true, isn't it? You HAVEN'T gone to a library to check out the facts about air travel and the atmosphere - have you?

"This response is part of the mind control agenda. Research and development is in itself driven by propaganda and corruption" - What, co-operative research led by multi-national groups of scientists? How might THAT be achieved?

"you have to be free from over-education to see through the persistent half-truths we are given." - That's the deadliest advocacy for ignorance I have witnessed in a while. Science is available to all of us. It is based on observable facts which are quite unlike your malevolent innuendo.

"It is the moderately-educated and those free from mind-controlled beliefs systems such as nothing exists unless there is evidence for it who can join the dots better." - NO-ONE ever controlled MY belief system. Seems like somebody's controlling YOURS.

"Listen to them as they have free-thinking ability and intuition." - Ah, something true at last.

"Real scientists often just churn out contrived rubbish like politicians to pacify the masses." - The reputation of scientists depends on the lasting nature of their work. Any scientist doing what YOU think they do would be out of business in NO time.

It seems your "moderate education" is INADEQUATE. Rectify this.

TrutherD1 2 years ago

Check my vids. This is not normal. JazzRoc is well-known disinfo, BTW.

bravestheart 2 years ago

I appreciate everyone's input.Here's mine:I have been researching the chemtrail subject for over 15 years.I had the opportunity to discuss the issue and put forward questions at the 2006 CDC International Conference in Atlanta ,Ga.If anyone has the filmed copy of the conference,do respond,I feel sure my segment of posed questions has been deleted;the conference was brought to an extremely abrupt halt and early lunch break ensued with time still left in the question and answer period.After having a dialogue with the EPD in Atlanta for over 6 months, I was given the opportunity to give a presentation for a panel.This event is what gave me the road and direction to the CDC conference. In the early 90's ,Hughes Aircraft applied for a patent ,search it: Stratospheric Welsbach Seeding For Reduction Of Global Warming.The patent clearly describes aluminum oxide and barium to be used for reflectivity,barium is 5 times more refractive than glass and the aluminum oxide as a radient barrier.Lot's of specific details were given as to the VISUAL RESULT. Ok,let's move on.The Olympics in China heralded in front page news articles HIGHLIGHTING their use of weather modification techniques to make sure they had dry weather for the games.This information was front page news folks. Weather modification ,geoengineering and cloudseeding are commonly accepted phrases and words in the field of atmospheric sciences today. None of these words or phrases hold any "conspiracy values" when discussed amongst the individuals who are in the field,,,NONE of THEM!!!The word "chemtrail" is not acknowledged in the "academic" field of atmospheric sciences ladies and gents. Let's keep going.Having enjoyed a lifetime of airshows and recreational flying since I was in my teens, my curiosity peeked in the early 90's with this new development in the skies. Let me state it this way,"If any of you reading this are in your early teens,you are the only ones who would be able to geninely say the skies are ,And have been, fiiled with "CONTRAILS" that quickly dissipate in a very short distance off a planes rear area and some, that are very long,that can be seen starting and stopping and cover up a clear blue sky and criss coss one another and happen within a certain interval or intervals of a day. However;if anybody reading this is let's say over thirty five years of age and does not have the memory to decisively recollect the way the sky appeared when jets flew through it ,,,,Kinda like in the 80's ,70's,60's ,,,I'll stop at this point,,,There are far bigger challenges for you ahead than discussing the technical elements and proof positive of geoengineering operations . I am close to the end here. I do not question the position that are skies are being filled with more than just jet fuel exaust when we witness the "PERSISTANT CONSPUGE" or whatever phrase that makes the discusiion more palatable when it is discussed.My question is what is it for and is it harmful to my health if I wish to go for a jog or a bicycle ride during a criss cross tic-tac-toe spray session. Depopulation? HAARP/Tesla techtonic,anti-enemy radar stealth shield,better conditions for high tech plasma powered antigravity aircraft or maybe we would all die from the intense rays of the sun without it.I do "not" know for sure what it is for,but I do know that anyone who says, "That's what planes DO",is either "A" in their early teens "B" a misinformation agent or "C" seriously riddled with some serious memory problems. The people who have the power to either use remote spray planes or get the stuff into in the tanks of commercial airliners also have the power to silence "almost" all commercial pilots,unless there are some in their early teens that I am not aware of. Hey ,I watched a recent news story of a flight controller letting his kids take to the mic for some early experience.I think he has run into some problems for doing this. I hope you all will take a personal inventory of simply the years that have passed and the beautiful skies that have gone with them.I PRAY to GOD that whatever has been the "CAUSE" of lucid individuals losing their recollection of THE SKIES IN PLAIN SIGHT of yesteryear and the simple science behind the dissipating contrails of those years that amazed us as children,,,,,,THAT IT BE BANISHED THIS VERY MOMENT !!!!! AMEN May great health be with you all in the years ahead!!!

JazzRoc 2 years ago

The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) has estimated that aviation’s total climate impact is some 2-4 times that of its CO2 emissions alone (excluding the potential impact of cirrus cloud enhancement). This is measured as radiative forcing. While there is uncertainty about the exact level of impact of NOx, SOx and water vapour, governments have accepted the broad scientific view that they do have an effect. Accordingly, more recent UK government policy statements have stressed the need for aviation to address its total climate change impacts and not simply the impact of CO2.

The IPCC has estimated that aviation is responsible for around 3.5% of anthropogenic climate change, a figure which includes both CO2 and non-CO2 induced effects.

Another way of looking at this, therefore, is that 96.5% of anthropogenic global warming is NOT due to aviation.

If we are "turning up the oven" by all our OTHER activities to the extent of 96.5%, we had better concentrate on THOSE. No?

Sem 2 years ago

JazzRoc, Bard of Ely I don't know if you were friends to begin with,

regardless isn't the whole issue the secrecy that is maintained such as this:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstech

Discussion is pointless right if we are only proved right after the act has happened... like "great now I know how I got cancer" - like this can ever be justified...

The real issue is the real-time release of information from officials to anyone who is interested. If said officials can't or are not able to discuss & be persuasive on these issues then they are exposing preliminary flaws & should be ANSWERABLE for, let alone putting this into practice...

Clearly this isue has the interest of many now so why isn't information made available. If it's in the interest of National Security etc etc why can't they convince the people they explain it to of this - like they were convinced in the first place. When did it ever become acceptable for one person to lie (omission) to another...

Conspiracy theories are completely justiable & commendable in Today's climate - this is reason enough to endorse Chemtrails as real...

Sem 2 years ago

If you click the link you will see the type of secrets I refer to. Everyone must keep an open-mind until this type of evidence is made transparent.

In the meantime an alternative needs to be provided like making the case for clear skies: increasing light levels, increasing air purity, increasing photosynthesis & crop yield & global production.

This type of action will indirectly bring scrutiny on the reason for & types of air trafic that are causing such overcast days - the very thing the chemtrail supporters, yourself & I all agree: that the deep blue skies are preferable.

Matthew 2 years ago

Bard, I don't know why you give any credit to a man such as JazzRock. He is a typical Dawkins atheist, who insists that anyone who believes in God is stupid, ignorant, and evil, despite the fact that most of us know many of the most prominent scientists in history have either been full on theists, or have denied atheism, preferring to remain agnostic or deistic. I myself am a member of Mensa, which puts me in the top 2 percentile for intelligence in the entire world, yet I fully believe there is a creator of our universe. Any time I am insulted by an atheist who makes such claims of lack of intelligence or education, I immediately put them on ignore, because anything else that comes out of their mouth is going to be tainted by that ignorant world view. Any time they begin to shoot their mouths off about 'facts' this, 'proof' that, I just remmeber that anyone can boast that they have the facts and the proof, and it may even often appear that way on the surface, but it would be irresponsible of you to just take a few pages of web copy as facts or proof of anything. Take molecules to man evolution. According to people such as JazzRock, its a fact, with absolute proof. Yet, even Dawkins is forced to admit: The account of the origin of life that I shall give is necessarily speculative; by definition, nobody was around to see what happened. - The Selfish Gene (1989) p.14

Dawkins, like myself, knows that you cannot really ever prove molecules to man evolution, because, contrary to the Scientific Method, you cannot observe it in action. That is why he says our origins are speculative, while arguing vehemently that its true fact, and anyone who disagrees is an idiot. People such as JazzRock are wholely deluded by a world view that simply refuses to believe in God. Facts have nothing to do with it. It's about emotionalism. It's not hard to see that when you read the types of things they say.

That being said, I got out of my car this morning in Washington D.C. to go walk into the office where I work, and the sky was literally covered in the offending trails - chemtrails? persistent contrails? I don't truly know what they are, but they are very suspicious. There wasn't a spot on the sky that wasn't covered by them. I do know this much. The vast majority of the people on this earth, and particularly this country, are living in denial. They remind me of the band that kept playing music as the Titanic was sinking. They implicitly trust their government, despite agreeing that politicians are corrupt. They agree that "other countries" do unspeakably evil things, and most know that history is rife with evils perpetrated by entire governments and nations, yet - not in this country! Our government would never do that! You conspiracy theorist nut job!

I for one consider myself awake. As the founding fathers of the U.S. were, I have a healthy distrust of governments of all kinds. Everyone should. You are a fool if you trust any government, democratic, or not. Power does indeed corrupt. And there are men and women who have and will continue to do great evils. Even in the U.S., history has shown this to be true - Small Pox infected blankets, Japanese concentration camps, The only nation in the world to ever nuke cities filled with civilians - TWICE!

The U.S. speak like a lamb, but has the horns of a dragon.

Wake up!

I will end on this note - A favorite quote of mine from the 19th century - If everyone is against you, you are either absolutely wrong, or absolutely right!

Toronto12 2 years ago

there's a new documentary about chem trails coming out soon called - "What in the world are they spraying"...

JK 24 months ago

The "Contrails" or "Chemtrails" or whatever names you call them are one of the ways to awaken you during The Earth's Great Change. 2012 is true but the change does not begin December 21, 2012-it begins now and already started a few years ago. 2012 is just the beginning of a new earth. First, the Earth has to go through a change resulting in most of the world's population wiped out. Remember all those who will pass do not die. Remember also that before coming in to this life, you knew that this would happen even though you do not remember. Do not let people convince you that this change is happening because God hates us. That is not true. The change is now. The Mayans knew it and other ancient civilizations as well. Please wake up because space ships or basically "Alien crafts" mostly do not resemble the usual sketch you see in magazines or books and model/special effects you see in the movies. What I'm trying to say is the white cloudy lines you see in the sky are vehicles (sure they look like jets/planes) but space vehicles that are trying to show you who and what they are by coming in to the third dimension; we are just like "them" so, we cannot call "them" Aliens. We are them and they are us. The vehicles already made transitions past the fourth dimension and beyond. Planes, jets or any flying machine in the sky from the airlines, military or the government are not the cause of the white cloudy lines. If you look close at these vehicles for a long time, you'll see that they dematerialize. This is because the vehicles have to materialize in the third dimension for us to see them. Also these white line sometime start in the middle of the town/city where there is no runway or they take off suddenly in the middle of the sky; or the vehicles seem to descend into thin air. We are all on a different frequency or level of frequency. Dimensions are levels of frequencies. That is why we cannot see anything past the third dimension unless the vehicles materialize in our dimension (third). Now is the time that we will all begin to see if you have not already because the new frequencies will allow us; past the veil and illusion that is the truth of who we are. The third dimension is where we are now. The fourth dimension is the spiritual world -what people see and go during a near "death" experience. We are never born and will never die. We are all energy and made a choice to all live together on Earth. Earth is a project. I will tell you more and I can answer your questions better if you respond with a question first. You have to listen to me. This world is not real. We all lived many lives reincarnating from the spiritual world which is the practice and rest period in the fourth dimension and the actual experience for learning in the third dimension. We choose are parents, siblings, friends, companions, good and bad moments, sex, ethnicity and so on. "Deja Vu" happens because we are remembering scanning life review and moments we practiced in the forth dimension before coming in. 2012 is a grand scale plan to raise the level of consciousness -the energy and or frequency to transition to the Fifth dimension. The Gaia Project 2012 -The Earth's Coming Great Changes by Hwee-Yong Jang is the book you need to get and read now and then read it over and over again. Please remember that God loves everyone. Don't let others tell you otherwise because this is and was always part of a plan that is Earth. When the Earth's change gets really strong and bad such as the weather changing; earthquakes/floods/tornados/hurricanes/sickness/"global warming"/ volcano eruptions/oil spills/ riots/recession/increase of crime/people dying of "unknown" causes/violent wind speeds -people who say and tell you that they can save you from God's "punishment" are lost. This is not a punishment and a time to be lost. This book is important and you have to spread the word and love. Please do not have fear for love is very important always and forever...

Haha98 22 months ago

There is no such thing you all smoke to much cannibis and now you are all paranoid. FACT give it a rest

mandatory retirement 20 months ago

I have never heard or read about chemtrails or contrails before reading this article. One of the best pieces of information on this hub is to do your own research. While I haven't done any research yet, my gut reaction to this information is mixed.

Country Girl 20 months ago

Okay, if chemtrails are not real, why did i see several jets making cross patterns across the sky where I live yesterday? The jets that normally fly past go in the same jet pattern from east to west every day. They do not go all over the place. Also, these jets were leaving long trails of expanding clouds in the sky. Then I saw a regular jet in its normal pattern, with a contrail that immediately dissipated. Not like the ones doing the cross patterns. The whole sky eventually was covered in this stuff they were emitting. All I know is what I saw with my own eyes. Funny how you changed you tune. Someone help you change your mind?

Country Girl 20 months ago

how do you explain the odd plane traffic? And the planes were one right behind eachother, really close. That does not happen with commerical traffic.

Concerned Human 19 months ago

Yea - mainly the odd plane traffic is the clincher - these are more likely drone aircraft - doing weather experimentation and possibly worse - Look into Monsanto developing aluminum resistant seeds - In case you dont know Monsanto wants to flat out OWN FOOD - period

they want to completely control everything that is meant for human consumption - its not hard to see how these 2 phenomenons cross paths -

YankeeRoo 19 months ago

Bard

This is a most interesting and intriguing hub. At first when you mentioned the name of the quack of 'David Icke' I thought this was going to be another garbage hub of hype, but later with references to Discovery and other credible people you redeemed yourself.

Still, the idea that commercial aircraft are intentionally polluting the skies is a bit far fetched - and I don't believe there are sufficient military aircraft flying everywhere to produce sufficient quantities of chemtrails to substantiate the webbing that the hub implies.

Still, one can never really trust the governments of this world. And yes we are probably a bit over populated.

Should the government have a culling programme? Sure, why not, let's start with these government nut cases and then move onto the drug traffickers and violent criminals.

As always, I enjoy your hubs! :)

Sky Queen 19 months ago

The planes are mostly white with some have red on them.

There is a No. but no name like commercial planes like USA on them.

They are from Evergreen Air.

Jane 18 months ago

Okay. Why are these long lasting contrails not seen before. I thought chemtrails were bunkum until I looked myself and saw hundreds of contrails that just stayed there and we are in a relatively unpopulated area. What the? It has ALWAYS been very cold up there - why no ice crystals before?

TreZay 16 months ago

Its simple. Jazzrock works for them. They will make a million sites and report the incorrect to make you go.....ooooo fuk it. We got to be very careful of what we read. Keep spreading the words Bard. But be careful. Blessings Flow

TreZay 16 months ago

YOU PEOPLE?

tugbo200-5 16 months ago

JazzRoc's ego is bigger then the chemtrail issue,your weakness proves it.

tugbo200-5 15 months ago

Bard

Believe it or not I have respect for you.

but for the life of me I can't understand for someone who claims they have researched the subject,and you say you are tired of people sending you "you tube" links,then you had to of watched "what in the world are they spraying".

This documentary has more then enough proof we are being poisoned,unless of course you are saying all the scientist,doctors,professors,engineers,biologist are all liars.

You were a firm believer in it before then in the blink of an eye you now go with ice crystals.I do know contrails are ice crystals but what we see today are Cemtrails.I also believe I will get a reply on the rude side ,like I'm bored with this or something in that order,no problem I got broad shoulders,

Also ,if you ever go to Mount Shasta don't eat the snow.Have a good day.

tugbo200-5 15 months ago

Thanks for reply and i will check out the contrail science site.I also read all you write,very interesting.

Mushainzenkoans 15 months ago

Chemtrails are most certainly real.But,there is nothing sinister in what they are doing.They are attempting to avert a global cartography."Authorized by Congress and sponsored by the National Academy of Sciences, a monumental and in-depth study on global warming and possible corrective measures (mitigations) was undertaken in the early 1990s. Represented were senior researchers, faculty, theoreticians, atmospheric scientists, department heads and CEO's from a multitude of prestigious institutions. The Smithsonian, Harvard, General Motors, Cambridge, MIT, Yale, World Resources Institute, National Center for Atmospheric Research, the Secretary General of the United Nations, Oxford, Brookings Institution, Columbia University, Oak Ridge National Laboratory, Carnegie-Mellon University, Princeton University, Brown University, Lawrence Livermore Laboratory, and many more. This colossal study recalls the scope, expense and secrecy of the Manhattan Project, yet the goals and eventual impacts of it are far greater."They are trying to fix our failing ozone and overabundance of co2. [link to www.lightwatcher.com] "Why all the secrecy?

Due to the severity of the situation it is mandatory to maintain public calm for as long as possible. The Earth is dying. Humanity is on the road to extinction - without the Shield mankind will die off with in 20 to 50 years. Most people alive today could live to see this extinction take place. This means that an announcement of the situation we face boils down to telling every man, woman and child on earth that they have no future, they are going to be killed. People would panic. There would be economic collapse, the production and movement of goods would collapse. Millions would die in all cities on earth, riots and violence would reduce civilian centers to rubble within days. Half of the population in dense metropolitan areas would try to leave the cities seeking 'safety' in the rural areas thinking that they would be safe. Those left behind in the cities would be at war with their neighbors, fighting for the remaining supplies. We would be telling the world that the world is coming to an end, and even with the Shield the chances of survival are small."

flidhais 13 months ago

I feel like I'm way behind since I only recently learned the term "chemtrail" but I had noticed my garden gradually doing worse and worse especially over the last two years. And other ppl also mentioned the same thing. I went hunting online and found the zillion chemtrail sites. I've been called a "crazy crap-spiracy" nut and even "defriended" by ppl who just couldn't grasp the concept I guess. Couldn't see how HAARP could apply either and apparently wanted "me" to personally educate them I guess, so they could call me a "crap-spiracist" again. I've been online so much now that I am wondering how I stay awake even...lol But I'm learning. Just glad I don't live in a city since they seem to get the most spray.

What do you think of this video? "Ex Govt Employee (CIA Insider) talks about CHEMTRAILS on THE POWER HOUR" It's 44+ min long and I'm trying to watch it since I'd like to send the link to others but it's taking me hours to view..I only have dial up and I actually "unplug" after I am off the net. Not paranoid or anything.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedd

OpeningMinds 11 months ago

Bard of Ely - Did you ever think that maybe there is a different mixture in the chemtrails being sprayed over South Whales, a mixture that might actually benefit the environment? Was there ever any analysis of substance fall out from the chemtrails over South Whales? How can you make an intelligent decision or belief without bothering to do the required research? There has been substance fall out analysis in various parts of the US which prove that at least some of the con/chemtrails do have harmful contaminants to the environment and life.

OpeningMinds 11 months ago

Even when these groups, or maybe better put as "think tanks" say that they are adding and want to continue adding these elements to the environment, you want to deny what they say? That makes no sense, that's like saying Hitler did not cause genocide on the Jews even though he preached it. If someone threatens to harm you are you going to believe that they could harm you and protect yourself or tell yourself that they didn't really mean to say that? Let me tell you from experience if someone says they want to harm you, you better prepare yourself because that is what they mean to do.

OpeningMinds 11 months ago

Yes Aluminum is all over the planet, but it is not naturally in the form of tiny particles that you breath in from the air. Just to clear things up a little, I didn't say that they said they wish to harm anyone, what I said was they said they are adding and want to continue adding these elements to the environment. For a more relevant example maybe I should use this one: You are tired of eating the same old thing, so you say that you want to eat something new, then you go and eat something new.

Bryan396 8 months ago

Chemtrails Morgellons ands Self Assembling Polymers-- Chemtrail Detox Protocol

FYI...I am working with some lead researchers on this.

Please spread to all infowariors and others.

detox and protect yourself.

Bryan396

Chemtrails and Polymers

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/37865095/Chemtrail_Self_As

Chemtrail Polymer Detox Protocol

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/37865095/Chemtrail%20Polym

Zero Point Energy / Energy into Matter

The Frequency (HAARP) Connection.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/37865095/Zero%20Point%20En

jwebb 5 months ago

i've seen many airline planes in sacramento, CA and even as a kid i never saw those white lines(i only saw the contrails from military jets as sacramento had 2 air force bases so i saw a lot of military jets), now we only have 1 active base and the very few times i saw a trail the trail was maybe 2 inches long(im looking from the ground)and never stayed in the air for more than a minute. What gets me is the planes making the trails are unmarked and are commercial airline jets, i've seen these planes change directions(if you know anything about aviation, planes fly straight to their destination and dont make what look like X's or tic tac toe in the sky. im writing this from my lunch break at work and as i was walking back i saw a commercial plane that had no trails coming out of it...also i find it hard to believe 10 years ago there was less air traffic, 11 years ago 9/11 happened and we all know everyone was scared to fly again. so the statement about it being more air traffic is nonesense.

Flamingo 3 months ago

I think Bard of ely and Jazz roc's is the same man. Just has a split peronality. And if not Bard of ely would rather take notice of Jazz and agree and suck up to him like a little puppy.But when he has read reports ect from proffessional all these years before and still did not agree. Very strange!

Ignorance is bliss 2 months ago

I live in the middle of nowhere. But airplane traffic has increase since 2012. Planes criss-cross and form these white clouds. At sundown the mountains look polluted and I can't see them clearly as I use too, especially the fact that I live far away from the City.

Ignorance is bliss 2 months ago

I know contrails are form from cold air up in the atmosphere. Can you explain how in a hot dry climate do contrails form and engulf our blue skies with white clouds. I don't even live next to a major airport and increase traffic does not make any sense, because these airplanes don't leave the area. They circulate back and forth, I say these because I see them all the time. Where I live nothing blocks my view of the sky, there isn't a lot of houses. It's a small town and I can see everything.

Ignorance is bliss 8 weeks ago

So what happen to our Blue Skies? Every time I look up there is nothing but white clouds and airplanes spraying contrails as you say it. Most of the time there is an overcast of these clouds covering our Sun, but no drizzle or rain?

Ignorance is bliss 7 weeks ago

I've notice when a storm is coming and the rain clouds are moving in to cover our skies. I don't see any airplanes with contrails, does that mean that all the airplanes just don't produce contrails on a rainy day, especially when The stratosphere is much colder.

Ignorance is bliss 7 weeks ago

So on sunny days and clear skies, we are fortunate to see more contrails than usual because they are in the right conditions. So What you are saying is that contrails should dissipate much faster than what I see currently. So Why are these contrails spreading into white clouds and polluting our atmosphere if it's only made of moisture laden? Our mountains are no longer visible in any direction when the moisture conditions are met.

Ignorance is bliss 7 weeks ago

I have been to other countries and I have not seen this phenomenon of Cirrus clouds forming from contrails. So what you are saying is that persistent contrails only occur in America because of increased air traffic. So other countries are fortunate, because their airplanes do not produce contrails and do not pollute their air with Cirrus clouds. What's the difference between this country and others, it's only one planet with the same atmospheric elements. I'd rather see clear skies, as I've seen in other parts of the world.

Ignorance is bliss 7 weeks ago

Well from my experience you can obviously tell that these airplanes select certain areas they want to cover with contrails. I've also notice that they are more concern with covering the Sun. So coverage is more dense than normal and about the Cirrus clouds, they don't even look like the pictures I've seen in the internet. You can even see the airplanes make several passes in the same area until the skies are completely cover with white dense clouds. These clouds look like platforms in the sky and not wispy lines cover by Cirrus clouds. Like I said before my town looks polluted. I don't even live close to the big city. The mountain side looks more and more foggy gray with low visibility and I already know about the other countries you mention.

Ignorance is bliss 6 weeks ago

How can something be normal if last year, there wasn't any dense cloud formation and no persistent contrails. All of a sudden air traffic just double from a few months. Other areas of these country were not affected by persistent contrails and now all of a sudden contrails are covering there blue skies. I'm not seeking answers or explanations. I know exactly what's going on.